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Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:36:22 GMT

Dr. Hermann, All:

I see serious flaws in our current income tax system. APT is designed to minimize or eliminate these flaws. Now we can nit pick something that is still untested and claim there to be flaws, real or, more likely, imaginary. Further, we can see a true miracle in our time in this global economy we're experiencing. And because it isn't as perfect as a geometric theorem, well I suppose we can say it is "flawed". Or is it? The major objectives of...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:26:25 GMT

Doc:

Please take note that it was not I who was the first to tackle your, "renders a process extremely impractical".

In your field you are well aware that many therapies must be rejected, not due to one "fatal flaw", but due to a plethora of "flaws", shall we say side effects, that "renders a process extremely impractical".

I, among others, have raised "flaws" that, again, collectively, could rise to the status of...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:12:11 GMT

Dr. Hermann:

A potential fatal flaw that could render the APT implementation process impractical is the potential that APT be subjected to a special interest feeding frenzy, making special allowances and adjusted rates to specific tax situations. We've discussed on this forum the possible need to allow for some special treatment of day trading. And there might be a couple other special situations legitimately deserving special treatment. The danger is that in the process...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (wjhermann) — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:19:35 GMT

I hesitate to add anything least my verbiage will be dissected to pieces and taken to unknown places and meanings.

Your favorite "fatal flaw" phase is of course just a figure of speech. If I am to thoroughly learn and try to represent ANYTHING I will most certainly check it out carefully up front and listen carefully to criticism for, yes, I'll say it again "fatal flaws", meaning an argument that fundamentally renders a process extremely impractical. In my...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (jordijordi) — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:24:00 GMT

I may agree that a sudden change in the taxation system has risks, not only from known unknowns, but especially from unknown unknowns.

However, as reported in an interesting The Economist article, human beings are too attached to what they own. In an experiment, individuals were offered a chocolate and a cup. 50% prefered one, 50% prefered the other. The next experiment involved giving for free a cup to individuals. Then, they were offered an exchange: the cup for a chocolate. Very...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:52:56 GMT

Doc:

Are the pharms working on a vaccine against "lack of APT" disease? It would seem a viable market if we are all dying due to a "lack of APT". Is especially needed if we are having to go through a years long study to determine if APT even makes sense.

I seem to remember a wise man once saying something like, "It is just a damn tax system after all" (quote could be a little off).

Don't forget Ben Franklin's wisdom:...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:16:27 GMT

Dr. Hermann:

I think I need help. Am I crazy for my delight in the big promise to be expected if we see the APT project come to fruition? And could it be some of us who would be a beneficiary of APT's success so fear change that they erect a mental wall?

APT is of course a big step, sure to have global consequences for future generations. In our not too distant history we've experienced world wars and cold wars, trade wars, recessions, depressions,...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:16:11 GMT

Doc:

Periodically entering here, I can feel the organ music emanating. I can see the robed speaker at the podium, surrounded by stained glass windows and various sculptures. I can hear him preaching the holistic values of a new phenomenon. No, not some miraculous cure for disease; not some biological discovery for ending starvation. Rather, a new fangled tax system!!!! A product so modern, so adapted to the current age that one cannot help but stand in awe....

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:12:31 GMT

Dr. Hermann:

Life cannot exist without flaws. Since the medical profession has been cited here, let me make the observation that all living things have flaws, yet life goes on. For that matter, the Space Shuttle has flaws, yet continues to perform its mission. We can live in fear of failure, or fulfill the imperative of life to advance and succeed.

It seems to me taxation lags behind most other major social endeavors in the evolving procession of life's...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:21:59 GMT

Doc:

I am referencing the title of my original post (it suggests great wisdom).

Now it would follow in your profession, although I do not know the specific venue within your profession in which you work, that "fatal flaws" would be a serious consideration, for in your profession "fatal" really can mean "fatal".

It may even be understandable that there would be a carry over to other aspects of your life, more from a profession...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:29:21 GMT

Dr. Hermann:

It seems to me the one big huge flaw shared by fair tax, flat tax, and the current income tax is, that compared to APT, they all have a too narrow tax base. Another flaw they all share is the distortions resulting from artificial incidences of taxation. And only the fair tax comes close to being automatic.

And what might be perceived as flaws in APT are actually corrections in the current flawed system. Since government's legitimate power to collect...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (wjhermann) — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:00:44 GMT

Darn right I look for "fatal flaws" in everyhting I do. Can't waste time on such matters no matter designed by a PhD, MD or any one of talent.

Fair tax has a few, such as the leap of faith that prices will decline 30% to make room for the behemoth tax. Flat has the non-progressivity unless you start with the multiple levels - then it ain't flat.

So APT after nearly three years has disadvantages for certain groups like day traders and pure tax...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:52:34 GMT

Doc:

I am shocked! I'm astonished! I'm beside myself! How could a supporter of a proposal put together by a PhD in economics, one with years of experience, be looking for "fatal flaws" in that proposal? Even I was not that naive. I was not looking for "fatal flaws" just a bunch of little to middlin ones, and I found more than a few.

No doubt each one of my exception/questions, most of which went unanswered, would not cause Humpty Dumpty to...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Brian Winters) — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:14:11 GMT

jordijordi wrote:

A question about taxes and externalities:

economists usually argue for hiking taxes for "products" that are subject to externalities. For example, the Pigou club suggests to raise oil taxes (and possibly reduce taxes everywhere else, to make it revenue neutral) to avoid pollution, and to force people to buy less consuming cars, to live closer to their workplace, ...

Is it...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (jordijordi) — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:09:40 GMT

A question about taxes and externalities:

economists usually argue for hiking taxes for "products" that are subject to externalities. For example, the Pigou club suggests to raise oil taxes (and possibly reduce taxes everywhere else, to make it revenue neutral) to avoid pollution, and to force people to buy less consuming cars, to live closer to their workplace, ...

Is it possible to include externality-related taxes in an APT framework?

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:20:48 GMT

Dr. Hermann, All:

As pertains to this discussion thread, we await the next post of one who has honored and graced this forum at great length as of late. The benefit of an open forum such as this is we see the sincerity of those who post here. Art "a layman" has added a lot to all of this dynamic discourse.

No one would want to accuse Art of backing off from his hard hitting "modus operendi". And I accept APT needs exposure to rigorous scrutiny....

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 11:34:50 GMT

Doc:

I'll present my response to the bulk of your post later. I have actually written it twice and once a power blip eradicated it and today Yuku screwed me up. I do need to remember to save it until I post it.

Meanwhile, I wanted to suggest that my career advice may have been misdirected before. After reading your closing sentence I'm thinking poetry. Poetry relies greatly on allusion; on painting pictures with words, and you do seem to have a talent for that....

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (wjhermann) — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:00:20 GMT

I speak from several sources from which I distill a SHORT conclusion which is not my own.

This post is for those new folks and others reading - hopefully, you can get past the posts lacking in a practical perspective regarding the vast majority of circumstances. In the world's largest ecomony of businesses and individuals you can no doubt find exceptions to argue about. We must address the vast majority, treating the small minority situations with respect, yet not let...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:36:48 GMT

Dr. Hermann:

Good to hear from you again. As for funding future APT promotion, do you think we should get 501(c)-3 non-profit tax exempt status? This will enable individuals and organizations to contribute tax free. Also, I've considered grants, both public and private, as a potential source of funding.

I agree we can debate APT to death and accomplish nothing. And Nothing else will happen without a deliberate campaign to win the hearts and minds of the right...

Re: New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:52:18 GMT

Doc:

If you ever decide to give up medicine (don't go into economics) you definitely have a career is sales.

The "cascading" effect is an argument that is merely theoretical and qualitative.

Let me just premise that Dr. Feige's whole idea, at this point, is theoretical. He has gone to great lengths to exhibit how and why it might work but it is all theory, by his own admission.

Am always struck by your qualitative...

New in this forum

feeds@yuku.com (jordijordi) — Thu, 08 May 2008 02:37:43 GMT
Hello, I am new in this forum. I still have not read all the posts in it (it will take some time to read them and to think about them). However, I have been thinking about something similar to AMT for a long time, and I had discussed it with several other people.

My idea was slightly different: there is also a transaction tax for all transactions except for "investment accounts". I view these accounts as accounts where the owner sends the money and may invest as much as...