What Would Be Better Than APT?

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 07:51:03 GMT

fug220:

Can't give you much argument that many in the genre you referenced would prefer to keep more. That was not the question however and the question was driven from a previous post by wjhermann, suggesting that facing higher marginal tax rates, all peoples would defer from entering any of the venues that can provide great wealth. I still suggest that riches are not the prime motivators for people in either of these categories, nor for celebrity, for that...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (fug220) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:14:34 GMT

You asked a series of questions, in your first paragraph. You know, the questions about the celebrity, the inventor, and the medical scientist and whether taxes would stop them from doing their prospective things. I don't think that taxes would in any of those cases. However, I do think that any one of those individuals, of which you speak, would like to keep more of what they earn. I think that they could probably do better in a system like APT. Especially the inventor and the medical...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:45:01 GMT

Scott:

Enjoy the respite; it is NCAA tournament time and between brackets and games my time is limited for a week or so.

Let me congratulate you for recognizing that the primary resistance to APT, or any other single rate taxation system, will be political rather than technical. There are issues that overlap in these two constraints but I will summarize those later. I have, in my numerous, vociferous posts, presented them before. My position has always been that the...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:24:48 GMT

Scott:

I deeply appreciate your comments. It's refreshing to see America's founding spirit cited here. What a blessed miracle this country's founding truly is. By the way, Art's a good American. His sincere comments here help to point out the state of American political consciousness we're up against. It's a natural human tendency to seek security and some reaffirming doctrine such as fairness to help achieve security.

The technical aspects of...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (boydsd) — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:05:35 GMT

"Some writers have so confounded Society with Government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and Government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:21:20 GMT

Art A Layman:

Are you sure you're not approaching the end of your word limit? Honestly, if sharing your rambling thoughts is that important to you, you should be able to find an appropriate on-line venue for this. And again you miss my main point. I'm not criticizing your lack of objectivity here. I'm simply observing your inability to be open minded based on your philosophical predisposition. I've openly acknowledged this philosophical gap and the unlikelihood...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:06:01 GMT

rubicon:

Revisiting: My derision is not meant to impart personal hurt but merely to needle. No doubt there is an element of wake up and think but for the most part it's just to poke a little fun.

I am flabbergasted by your suggestion that I am not objective and am biased. There is little question that after having apprised myself of the intricasies of APT I am not enamored. It is also true that whence commencing that review, I had a prejudice against...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:06:28 GMT

Art A Layman:

In your effort to comment thoroughly, you seem to have missed my most important point. You may think I'm too biased to be objective. But you fail to see what I and others see all too clearly, which is your extreme bias and lack of objectivity. Your sarcasm and derision don't help much either. Besides that though, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It's no secret I like APT. I see in it the advancement not just in efficiency but more...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:31:05 GMT

Doc:

Mixing metaphors is a common, often innocent, failing. Mixing number references can be more troublesome. You frequently compare APT's "tiny tax" rate with larger "embedded" tax rates passed through by those everpresent finaglers in the business world. I haven't, previously, given much thought to the Fair Tax premise of an "embedded" 22% factor in pricing, supposedly representing a factor for taxation offsets. A factor which you also...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:58:28 GMT
rubicon:

I wouldn't want to consider greed without also including the other side of the coin which is envy.

One could argue that this inclusion is not unfair. It creates, however, a vague argument. It is generally considered that greed is bad, with almost no mitigation. Envy, on the other hand, can embody both good and bad aspects. Envy, often provides motivation; it spurs a desire to achieve similar results for oneself. It is...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:47:27 GMT

rubicon:

You sarcastic?! Who woulda thunk it? On the other hand, there has been much that you have posted here that could be viewed by any reasonable mind as ludicrous (I have never been known to avoid sarcasm, nor derision).

If you can fathom the potential extension of many of my doubts about the viability of APT, one would be surprised that you could classify many of them as flimsy. By your own admission, and that of Dr....

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:13:22 GMT

Scott:

Please allow me a note of sarcasm here. We should maintain an inefficient tax system in order to maintain the efficiency of the social welfare system. In fairness, Art believes in this stuff. Maybe he persuades others as well, but I find it quite ludicrous. We can always find some flimsy excuse to not change. And we can always point to uncertainty about something new and claim it as a reason not to change. It sometimes takes "stern stuff" to have the courage to...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:19:38 GMT

Scott:

A reasonable proposition but not logical. In the first place legislation targeted to economic relief, especially of specific groups, is a terribly inefficient methodology. A change to the current tax laws requires an addendum, usually, to the tax code; a minor educational aspect for IRS and the public, and then it all folds into the existing system of collection and filing taxes. To create new targeted legislation every time a need appears necessary will frequently...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (boydsd) — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:19:11 GMT
I'm with you wjhermann, I misspoke using the term "raise" taxes, I meant to imply "collect" taxes. I don't see APT as a backhanded way to "raise" taxes, I see the proposal as revenue neutral here, and like that. Of course if it were implemented the politics might tweak the rate to "raise" more funds. That might be OK as well, we do have a few areas of federal policy contributing to deficits presently, if we the people want to collectively...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (wjhermann) — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:09:56 GMT
Scott,

Your point was and remains well taken. Social engineering and corporate promotion via rates, exemptions and deductions is directly in the cross hairs of APT -- we intend to do exactly as you suggest. Tax money to raise money.

The only clarification I would make to your last post is that there is no intention to raise overall taxes under APT -- it would be revenue neutral though there would be a shift to business and wealthy large transactions. It is expected that -...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:11:40 GMT

Scott:

AAL can speak for himself, but in fairness he does raise the issue of greed in the market place. I wouldn't want to consider greed without also including the other side of the coin which is envy. In a laissez-faire market place, greed and envy exist along with a multitude of other motivations, and collectively constitute the will of the people. I guess it takes a little bit of faith to let free will reign. Laissez-faire is a condition of maximum freedom of...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (boydsd) — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:30:19 GMT
AaL,

This does seem to be a major point where you and APT advocates disagree. What I've read of the APT advocates in this discussion group is the desire to raise taxes blind to the social implications. Taxes must be raised, so let's raise them as quickly and efficiently as we can. You seem to advocate for a tax collection system that influences social concerns as well. As I stated before, if we must address the social concerns, let's do it on the spend side. We all...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (Art A Layman) — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 06:39:00 GMT
Doc:

An argument can be made for taxing them every time they enter any nation's waters but since they incur a higher risk - that of becoming turtle soup - they should receive tax credits offsetting any liability they might have.

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (rubicon) — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:47:04 GMT

Dr Hermann, Art A Layman:

I admit it's easy to get off point in the passion and enthusiasm of posting on this forum. APT is not a subject driven by personal interest as there's no real way to cash in. What we do see here, in this topic thread especially, is what we confront generally as a nation, as a body-politic. We seek to find a high level of agreement that we can close ranks behind, and advance an agenda for the greater good.

Art A Layman, it seems,...

Re: What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (wjhermann) — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:01:19 GMT
Hey guys, will you please get on point and cover the only subject you haven't talked about -- the pro's and cons of migratory green sea turtles and whether they can be taxed for beach use at each end of their journey from St. Criox to Denmark. I've been waiting patiently for the answer.

What Would Be Better Than APT?

feeds@yuku.com (boydsd) — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:56:28 GMT
I pose this question to Art a Layman. I read the long discourse between AaL, Herman, and Rubicon. I find clarity in determing the extremes and working in to the middle. APT appears to me to be one extreme, and one that resonates with me. So AaL what do you propose, if not APT, more of the socially engineered tax code we have now? I'm not yet retired, please keep it under 1000 words.

Scott